Beyond Titles with Kendra Johnson

Okay, Alana Lin for short, is how I will refer to you throughout our conversation today.

I'm thrilled to have you on our podcast and to just chat about your experience.

Historically, you and I have always had such in-depth, amazing conversations, so I'm happy
that we finally get the opportunity to record one of these.

And with that, I mean, I'd love if you could just start off by introducing yourself to our
listeners, who you are, your journey to this point, and some of the amazing things that

you're working on currently.

sure.

Well first off thanks for having me.

I shared with you my excitement in being here.

You and I, as much as we've had some awesome conversations along the way, we haven't known
each other for that much, for very long, right?

So I think it just goes to show the connection that we've had and the like-mindedness that
we have.

so just overall, thank you for having me on your podcast.

I think my journey.

So I feel like this is a question that I get a lot from folks.

Just sort of looking at my background, because there's a lot of different industries that
I've been in.

There's a lot of different roles that I've had along the way and my credentials.

So like my university degrees are in psychology and clinical social work.

So people are like, how did you end up in business?

So I think the story usually goes is that, know, like as a first generation Canadian,
there's a certain push to really live into the ideals or the vision that your parents have

for you.

And a lot of the times that falls right into that understanding that stereotype where it's
like doctor, lawyer, engineer.

So for me, I was like clinical social worker, psychology is kind of, you know, it's close
to that healthcare field.

Well, it is in the healthcare field.

And then so maybe that's where I should go, but there was always this pull towards
business I did spend a year at the University of Manitoba in the business school really

sussing out like marketing Looking at some of the different areas of sales and really
determining sort of like what was this pull that I felt sort of naturally to business But

being a good daughter, I finished out my psych degree I finished out my clinical social
work degree and I started in that path But it wasn't very long until I really understood

that you know, this isn't wasn't going to be my long-term

strategy for my professional career.

So I pivoted into business through entrepreneurship.

So I started my own company and we were focused in marketing, we were focused in brand, as
well as in events.

And so we did a lot of work with different magazines, different companies, some as large
as like Rogers Communications, which was a ton of fun.

But after a while, I think what ended up happening is the same thing that tends to happen
to a lot of folks who get into the entrepreneurial realm in more creative areas is that

that passion that you have that brought you there, that drive to really like want to
contribute and like create things that are cool and new starts to sort of grow beyond that

into like that of like a business owner where you're doing like taxes and you're to plan
out business strategies.

And like, I'm sure you know what we're talking about, right?

Like, I think inevitably you kind of come to this point where it's almost like a crux
where you're like, okay, I'm now doing less of that creative stuff that brought me into,

you know, wanting to do this as an entrepreneur and more of that logistic stuff to kind of
keep the business going.

And so when an opportunity presented itself to kind of pivot out of entrepreneurship and
into business operations for another company, I took it.

And, you know, along the way there was like growth of family.

I had my son, you know, got married and all those sorts of things.

But I think that from that first pivot into becoming from like entrepreneur to employee in
business, and then now to where I am working for a global company, we have 35,000

employees.

There's a really big global scope that I have and I'm loving what I do.

I think that I've really found where I like to be.

I think that knowing myself as an employee and knowing myself is like a corporate
contributor, but also seeing the way

that those skills that I built with my degrees and psychology and clinical social work
like those human centered soft skills how we can leverage them to get the most out of

people so that people feel seen heard and supported and we can reach our goals for the
company is awesome that's like play for me so I love that

Yes, oh my gosh, quite the journey and I think many people can relate to the circle of
influence, how that really drives our choices at a young age.

I mean, you think we go to university at what, 17, 18 years old and...

we do have that influence to say, here's what I believe I should be, whether it's
conscious or not.

In your case, very conscious it sounds like, and then finding your own lane.

And I think that's really awesome that you tried multiple different things and now you
found your home.

are many people who...

It takes them decades, if at all, to do that.

And they kind of get stuck in, here's what I should be doing.

So I really just want to acknowledge that.

the 3,500 plus, plus, plus people that you impact every single day, I'm sure also very
happy that you found your home here.

Yes.

Oh, sorry.

Yes.

35,000.

Oh my gosh.

all good.

much larger and that's just in one space, not over the course of many years.

So yeah, you are making massive ripple effects and I mean, I know I feel them and I see
them every single day in your social platforms.

So I'd love to learn a little bit more about, you obviously you've had your hands in
diverse industries, you've moved through different layers and levels of organizations.

So how have all these experiences really influenced

your perspective when it comes to enterprise transformation.

So there's a lot, right?

I think that one of the things, even though I've been through a lot of diverse roles and
diverse industries and things like that, there's definitely themes, there's common themes

that you see when you're going through iterations of transformation, whether you're
seeking that full enterprise change or if you're just looking to sort of like transform a

function within the company.

And I think that like one of the things that...

I keep coming back to when it comes to transformation is like rooting in like
organizational readiness.

So I think a lot of people talk about transformation and like, you know, they do what they
need to do.

They go through, you know, looking through the data and understanding sort of like current
state to be like, okay, I think that like transformation is what we need here.

We need to evolve essentially so that we can meet our goals.

But then they don't take it a step further to really determine if the organization is
ready to go into what it takes for transformation, right?

And transformation, like a huge misconception is that like, okay, we've added tools and
technology and we have now a cloud space.

So now we're transformed.

I'm like, no, you can't just throw resources and tools at something and call it
transformation, right?

Like it's an evolution in the ways of working and the ways of being at work.

It's an evolution in the culture.

It's asking your leaders to rise to the occasion and all of these different ways.

like, you really need to take a step back and understand it's like, okay, well, based on
the current state analysis that we've done for our company and

of looking at the ways we function, what some of those pain points are, what some of those
gaps are, and how we're thinking that we need to change it, are we ready for it?

Because I mean, like, if you don't have enough people to support in the transformation,
whether that has to do with actually engaging in the activities required, whether you need

more experts on board, because another misconception is that the consulting firm that a
lot of us work with is going to lead the transformation.

And oftentimes, that's not the case, right?

You still need, you know, you

still need those internal folks that are going to be taking part, that are dedicated, that
are committed to seeing that change through from an internal standpoint.

So do you have those people in your organization that are dedicated and able to lend the
time that it's going to take for this transformation?

And then when you look at the leadership team, are these people on board with the idea of
the value that this transformation is going to bring?

Are these folks actually walking the talk?

And sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes the answer is no, and sometimes when they're
not on board,

simple as saying, they don't understand why we're doing this, or maybe there's
miscommunication.

Sometimes it's something is, you know, as trivial as people having taken part in a
previous transformation or the implementation of a previous tool where they're saying, I

took part in this, I contributed to this, and now you're trying to change it.

So there's some resistance that can come up there, right?

How do you mitigate that?

How do you work through that?

like organizational readiness is number one, and that's across any kind of transformation
that you're looking to do.

You need to look at your organization and say, are we really set up to do this
transformation?

Yes.

And then I think the second thing is like agile processes during that transformation where
you're looking to say, okay, we've set out a plan and we know what we want to do, but

along the way that might have to pivot, you know, like you.

knew?

Exactly, right?

Where you're looking, you're like along the way, you might have to, you know, there might
be new information that comes in.

There might be changes through the organization.

There might be needs that come through from like a client perspective or a shareholder
perspective or an employee perspective or a market perspective.

You can't just simply stay the course for the sake of staying the course.

You've got to be able to have that agile way that you move through that transformation so
that by the end of, you know, going through all those activities to implement something,

it actually looks

how it can and it can't or how it should and it's it's got a chance of being sustainable
right where now it's like it was set up to exist in this present state yeah

two very important questions.

And again, to your point that I think most people do not consider, most organizations do
not consider.

And the readiness, I think that's something that, I mean, that we see often and we don't
go in and transform organizations at the Venn group, but what we do, what we do do is work

with people.

And some of the simplest barriers to entry have been things like, I don't know what my
login is, or what if I press the wrong button and it deletes everything?

And these are from senior leaders and you're like, that's really why you haven't adopted
this.

That's the only thing getting in our way.

This is going to be easier than we thought.

But that comes from, you know, from understanding, from speaking with your people and from
hearing some of those concerns in advance.

And then obviously being able to, be open to the how potentially looking different than
what you had originally intended.

So long as the outcome remains the same.

Totally.

And I think that's one of the things that I really appreciate about your leadership style.

And in our conversations, I hear this through the way that you communicate about your
teams and your work.

I see it again in your social presence that you have a leadership style that really
emphasizes inclusion and respect and that high performance.

So when you are going through transformation, you don't see a dip in the quality, which is
something that I really admire.

So again, what are some of those specific strategies

that you use to cultivate these values and to really embed these values in your teams
because naturally they're looking to you, you embody these, but how do you embed those

values in your team, especially when you work with global cross-functional teams?

Sure.

I will say too, like just taking a step back, I will argue and say that you guys do do
transformation at the Venn Group because of the outcomes that you see and the changes that

you create for companies.

I would say that's full transformation, but.

Very fair.

Thank you for calling that out.

Yes, you are correct.

I think when it comes to like being able to look at strategies where you can balance sort
of like that push for that effectiveness, but also You know meeting people where they're

at and like rooting some of those strategies and people is just like, know I say a lot
just like just treat people like people like, know the of the day it's like you need to be

able to Here I'm gonna back up and pause for a second Just needed to cough, okay

Do you mind, here, I'll start on the answering of the question there.

Inclusion, respect, and high performance.

Okay, got it.

So I think what it comes down to is just treating people like people, right?

And really knowing who they are, like taking the time to understand who are the people on
your team, who are your colleagues, get like, you know, at least a vague understanding of

what's the motivation behind the work that they do, behind some of their goals.

And it doesn't have to be complex, right?

It can be something as simple as like, you know, how are they supposed to show up in the
organization?

Like what are the goals for their role?

What are the goals for their function or their department?

And understanding like what that requires in interaction.

with them, like wanting to be curious, like you know, wanting to understand.

I'm digressing again, sorry.

I have a million ideas swirling around in my head here.

I know they're all wonderful.

Honestly, it's great.

are, I'm loving the answers.

So you're saying, can you share specific strategies?

That was it.

You employed to cultivate these values within global cross-function team.

OK.

So some of the strategies that I use are really just like treating people like people,
like always, and making sure that you understand who they are.

Making sure that you're coming with a level of curiosity versus judgment and the
interactions that you're having with them.

I mean, everyone's just simply wanting to show up and do their best, right?

You can't come to an interaction with a person or a team member thinking that they have
malicious intent because then it's just simply not going to work.

And even if there's friction there, you've still got to find a way through.

At the end of the day, you're both there to reach the same goal.

And then, so how can you find those inroads to work with people in those ways?

I think that for me as a leader, I always talk about integrity and expectation management.

And I think that if anybody on my team is listening right now, they're probably rolling
their eyes, because I use these words far too much probably in some of our meetings.

But I think when it comes down to with integrity, and this is something that was really
drilled in,

a previous role that I had where they said, you know, you're either in integrity or out of
integrity.

It's not something that you have just simply at all times.

So you have to go situation by, yeah, situation by situation and say, am I in integrity in
this situation or am I out of integrity in this situation?

And integrity in this case is simply just looking at things like, am I?

doing the things that I say that I'm going to do.

And then the expectation management piece of it all is saying, well, if I can't do those
things that I said that I was going to do, am I reaching out to people and letting them

know in enough time where they can have their expectation shifted and then any of the
stakeholders down the line on their end?

they also have the opportunity to shift the expectations with them.

So if you're able to do that, then you're still in integrity, right?

Because it's like you've been able to move the goalposts, but everybody's on board and
you've given them enough time to be able to adapt and adjust and manage that expectation.

So that's really big with me with anybody who's on any teams that I oversee or people that
I work with closely That's an expectation that I have is that you know, we're going to

work with integrity and it and again Like there's that agile piece where it's like you
recognize things change life happens, you know New priorities pop in the way and things

like that But then your job is to communicate that that's happened Change or set a new
deadline or a new expectation and keep going, you know so that's a big piece of of how I

lead and

and sort of some of those strategies that I use as I'm working with people as we're
driving towards sort of like those high performance pieces, but also treating people like

people, yeah.

I love that.

I love that.

And I've never heard in integrity or out of integrity.

I think that's such a, it's such a simple perspective reframe rather than, you know,
having integrity all the time.

It really makes it more of a choice and an action.

And I think that's really helpful for people to just discern, am I acting a certain way or
am I not acting a certain way?

And again, coming down to that choice.

Right, and as you say choice, like it's not as passive, right?

Where you're just kind of like, I have integrity, so I don't need to worry about it, it's
just something that I have.

Meanwhile, it's like you're asking yourself, am I in integrity in this situation or am I
out of integrity?

And if it's kind of like that gut check, and if you determine that you're out of
integrity, do what you need to do to get back in integrity as you move forward.

Yes, yeah.

And I think that the way you position that and the expectations that you've set with your
team, it sounds like creates so much psychological safety as well, because it's okay if

you make mistakes, it's okay if things change.

As you said, life happens if you're not communicating about it and you're not resetting
those expectations, that's where it becomes not okay.

If you are, then we make it work.

And so...

Cultivating that space for people to come to you with the good, the bad, and the ugly, I
think really also helps their well-being, especially in times of transformation, as we

mentioned, where there might be a lot going on, people are feeling a lot of things.

And so that's something as a leader that you also work to nurture is that employee
well-being, how they feel every single day, how they feel when they're not at work as well

is just as important as when they are at work.

So in knowing that you're driving towards the goalposts, you have expectations, you have,
I know you, so I know you have expectations that are both reasonable but also high because

you like the quality of work and to be.

there and you support high performance, how do you make sure that doesn't compromise the
team's well-being overall?

think there's a couple things there.

I think that with my teams, like we, as you talk about psychological safety, because I'm a
big proponent of that too, and I think that there's a place in that, especially in

leadership, I think that we talk about, or at least we hold space to talk about
everything.

And so...

if there's been changes in the company, whether it has to do with a strategic focus or it
has to do with headcount or if it has to do with teaming or structure or any of those

sorts of things.

we take on a new client, like, you know, if there's all these different things and people
are either confused or they're feeling frustrated or there's just an opportunity to

provide some clarity or to air out feelings and things like that, there's a space for
that.

I have one-on-ones with individual team members every single week and then we have a full

team meeting every single month and on the agenda that we have for our team meetings right
before we get into folks sort of giving updates about like their work and where they're at

what they've accomplished what they're focused on it's sort of like smack dab in the
middle of those those work pieces because in the beginning of our meetings we talk about

any new updates in the company we'll you know have a little bit of an icebreaker to sort
of connect and then we kind of go from there there's a section called same page

conversations and what it means is that there's an opportunity for us to get on the same
page about something

So whether it has to do with you know amongst the team members from any of them with me or
for them with the company or something like that It's a space for people to ask questions

and not be judged and for us to talk about it So they might choose to have that
conversation during that same page conversation section in the agenda during our team

meeting if they want sort of like forum input if they just want my input or my perspective
or even to call me out on something then they usually do that in the one on

can talk about that, we can talk through it.

And I think that that's been really effective for my team because they know that if
something's bugging them, whether it has to do something I did, something that the

company's announced, something that they encountered in a meeting where I wasn't there or
something like that, they can talk to me about it, they can talk to their team about it,

so they have that space to really figure things out without sort of going with the story
that they might have first had in their reaction to the response or to what might have

come up there.

I think one thing to clarify as well is that

Them having space to say whatever it is that's on their chest doesn't mean full disclosure
So I think that you know, we still have healthy boundaries among the team, right?

Like this is not a place where you're necessarily supposed to be talking about all of the
you know That the things that are really keeping you down in your personal life.

It's if it's impacting your work then sure and that's on the table But I think that you
know Just there's got to be also those boundaries with psychological safety as well where

it's like as much as I have a background in psychology I am NOT your therapist

You know, I'm also not your best friend.

You know, I'm still here to provide you with support and to, you know, like to serve a
purpose in the company.

But I'm also here to help you through things that are going to be impacting your work or
how you want to show up at work.

So we can talk about those things, but within boundaries for sure.

Yes, yeah, exactly.

Not a therapist.

You don't want those blurred lines because that gets, that can get messy and also then
that can be detrimental for the individual, right?

If they're, they're saying something, you're providing advice, thinking you're helping and
they need other resources that would be more, better suited for what they're going

through.

It's important to know that.

Stay in your lane.

So I think that's awesome.

The same page piece in the agenda where people can get on the same page.

So brilliantly named too.

And I think, so this actually ties into one of the recent posts that I saw on your
LinkedIn, which was about addressing challenges and challenging topics head on.

And so it sounds like that's one of the tactics and tools that you use with your team in
order to open the doors for those conversations.

Are there any other areas where you see this philosophy kind of translate between your
teams or even outside of work where you have conversations because every single

day we're having challenging conversations and I think especially in this climate people
are constantly bombarded with those challenging conversations.

So what are some of the the tips that you can give for addressing those those
conversations to make them constructive?

And I think like you said it like right now it is it feels at times just simply hard to be
human With everything that's going on in the world whether it has to do with you know

changes in the market whether it has to do with the global economy whether it has to do
with Climate and politics and like you name it like you know There's a lot of things that

are going on that are causing people to feel down or overwhelmed or anxious or all of sort
of those things and I think that you know what I would recommend to anybody sort of

struggling

with how they can think of addressing difficult conversations with their team or even
just, you know, start in some way is just to say the elephant in the room, you know, sort

of like to not skirt around it.

I think that people can tell when leaders are running from topics or when they're not
wanting to cover them, even though they're relevant or pertinent.

And so even if you don't have all the answers, you want to be able to say that you see it,
you're thinking about it, you understand, at least to a point that this is something

top of mind for your folks.

So whether it has to do with changes in the company you can say, you know We've had these
changes to the company and I understand that it probably brings up a lot for folks and

then having those spaces like we talked about whether it's in the one-on-ones or in sort
of a forum setting where people can Talk about it openly sort of get things off their

chest again within a context of how it impacts work and things like that I think is
important so that people can feel as though they can have those conversations and then

move on to their work.

I think that where it starts to be a detriment to the company or for productivity or for
the effectiveness of a function is that if people are feeling this way, leaders aren't

addressing sort of that elephant in the room, but people are expected to sort of push
through.

The feeling anyways and some people can cope with those things fine and they can
compartmentalize But a lot of people can't especially with just the sheer amount of things

that are that are leaning on people right now or weighing people down So I think just
addressing the elephant in the room just to say this happened I recognize it's probably

had an impact on on you in different ways if you want to talk about it These are the ways
that we can because a lot of the time to Companies will have formal channels for employee

listening and things like that as well that they

can leverage.

But also just letting folks know sort of like either what it means for the company or what
things may look like going ahead.

It's sort of like really wanting to clarify what impact this might have on them, if any at
all.

You know, just letting them know there's been these changes in the company, but I want you
to know that, you know, this won't have any impact to this or this won't change the way

that we work or this will change the way that we work in the following ways so that people
have something to go on.

And again, they're not just sitting and stewing in the stories that they

create for themselves that are now going to impact and have a filter on all their work and
interactions thereafter.

Right, yes.

And those filters can be created in milliseconds.

It's amazing how many filters we actually have.

Again, going back to the idea of whether it's conscious or not.

And one theme that I've noticed from all of the strategies that you've shared so far is
that there's always a healthy degree of proactivity and of communication.

even in saying...

here's an update, but here are the channels through which you can voice your concerns, you
can ask questions.

And one of the things that we notice with a lot of organizations is they say, well, I've
said it once, or we said it in a town hall, or they know because it's in their onboarding

package and.

I normally sit there and think, when was the last time this person looked at their
onboarding package?

know, are these resources actually still up to date from when they were hired?

So you make a really good point in that we need to continuously be sharing this
information, these resources for people so that it is top of mind because otherwise it's

just kind of filed back in, you know, the archives of what's available to them.

Right?

You said it.

You said it Kendra, and this was a learning for me, right?

In my leadership journey, like this was something where it's like, okay, I said it in a
team meeting, so everyone's got it, sounds good.

And like, it's something that honestly, like I'm still having to remind myself of that
like repetition is key when you're trying to have something land or sink or like, you

know, really trying to ensure that people understand what they're supposed to do, how
they're supposed to show up, all those sorts of things.

You can't say something once and it's not because people are lazy and they don't like to
read emails or things like that.

We are all busy and we are all trying to prioritize as best as we can.

You know the information that we take in and sometimes things don't stick for one reason
or another Sometimes we don't get to that email until three days later like, know There's

there's a lot of different reasons why people don't retain information So any opportunity
that I can if I'm trying to get something across a new framework a new initiative a change

an update I say it as much as possible until people are like got it.

Yeah, I already did the thing You don't need to say it again.

Like that repetition piece is so so critical.

Yeah

Yes, yeah, I would say repetition for retention.

And if people are annoyed by you, great, you've done your job.

So that's, yeah, that's amazing.

And I, there's one thing that I want to go back to that you mentioned in, you know, the
safe space.

Nope, sorry, not safe, safe space.

I'm gonna pause and do that one again.

So there's one thing I want to go back to when you were talking about the same page
discussions and around the boundaries that you set, obviously, to have specific

conversations, but within the confines of what's appropriate for the environment.

And we just spoke about how we can be proactive in setting some of those expectations with
resources and channels that folks can use to share their thoughts.

I've been hearing from many leaders that there are conversations that are happening that
aren't appropriate in the workplace or that cross those boundaries and those barriers.

So of course, setting those expectations upfront, but are there any tips you can give for
kind of those in the moment, a boundary has been crossed and this isn't an appropriate

conversation for this moment, especially for some of our newer people leaders who might
experience something and they...

They don't know how to react in that split second.

No, for sure.

think again like say say what it is, know Say the thing say the elephant in the room like
if you're feeling out of your depth or if you're feeling as though like you know something

that could be provided through an EAP might be more appropriate than this person coming to
you now and telling you all these things first acknowledge and validate you want to be

able to say like wow

That you know, that's a whole lot that you've shared with me.

It's incredible.

Like thank you so much for sharing it with me.

I feel as though, you know, I am a little bit out of my depth here, especially if it's
like something that's like personal or something where it's like a major disclosure or

something like that.

If it has to do with an area that you have a policy for backing up and maybe saying here,
let me try that again.

I'm to start over again.

think what I would recommend for that is really just to say the thing.

Say the thing that you're experiencing and sort of where that conflict's happening for
you.

Where you can first acknowledge what the person's saying and say, you know, wow.

Thanks for sharing that for me.

That sounds like it's a lot or that sounds like it's tough.

I think that there's a way that you'll be able to either gain some insight or maybe like
understand what next steps can look like for that.

And if there's a policy for your company, you can send them to that.

If there's a specific EAP program that would be appropriate, you can send them to that.

If there's a whistleblower or something like a, you know, program like that, you can send
them to that.

Tell them a little bit more information there, but you can always let people when you know
that

things are or you feel as though something's a little bit out of scope.

I think the more detrimental thing would be to sort of enter deeper into that
conversation, maybe provide advice that's not helpful or that might be dangerous, and

then, you know, kind of go in a direction that it shouldn't be.

So I think just really understanding what resources are available at your company for
folks who are either in crisis or struggling in ways that are outside of the scope of

leadership relationships and being able to direct them to those channels.

whether it's an HR person, an EAP program, a policy to get some clarity, and then let them
know that they can follow up with you to say what they did so that you're actually taking

an interest.

So again, you're not trying to solve the problem for them, but you're giving them options
on how they can solve the problem for themselves or at least understand what next steps to

take so that they can maybe get out of a situation or change their state.

Yes, brilliant, brilliant.

so if you are a newer people leader or even an experienced people leader listening to
this, take Lens Tips.

And if you don't know what resources are available for your team, now is your time to go
and figure that out just in case you have a question that pops up and you're not quite

sure how to handle it.

OK, I've got one final, maybe heavy question, not heavy in the sense of of.

you know, what your answer will be, but just that it's hard to pinpoint one.

So my question for you in wrapping up this amazing conversation is what do you believe are
the most critical, whether we want to call them soft human people skills these days, that

leaders need in order to support their technical expertise?

I think

Yeah.

You

to say this to because I feel like it's a buzzword now, but in a good way, like it's good
that folks are like, you know, leaning into it.

They're using it.

They're aware of it, but it's that emotional intelligence piece, right?

And that comes from levels of self-awareness where it's like, you have an understanding of
how you can come across in situations, sometimes good, sometimes not so good.

So then being able to sort of prepare yourself for interactions.

you know, even that piece of, of really just prepping for those meetings that you're

having with folks comes from that emotional intelligence lens.

Like you want to be able to meet people where they're at.

You want to understand what motivates them and what their interests could be.

I'm going to start over with that.

starting to like run on a tangent in my head here.

Okay.

So I think that, you know, and it's become a little bit of a buzzword when it comes to
emotional intelligence is that ultimate soft skill to have.

think that coming from places of self-awareness and sort of understanding how you come
across in different situations, how you can show up, whether sometimes it's great or not,

and being able to adjust and adapt depending on who you're going to be meeting with, what
your audience is, the needs of the meeting, the goals of the meeting, the task at hand,

all those things can be so powerful.

I think that coming from

that place of curiosity instead of judgment is so powerful and I think it's easier to say
than to do when someone sort of comes before you and they might challenge you or they

might say something that you know either intimidates you or it might be something that
you've interpreted as even hostile and instead of reacting and instead of you know maybe

getting defensive turning around and trying to understand where that person's coming from
and to understand where someone's coming from doesn't mean that you agree with them you're

simply trying to understand

where they're coming from, right?

We're just trying to figure out sympathy and empathy here.

And so I think that that emotional intelligence piece is big.

I had put together a leadership development program in a previous role that I had, and it
was really rooted in self-awareness.

And I think, you know, I'm a big believer that the best leaders are those folks who know
where they are awesome and they know where they absolutely suck.

Yeah.

We all have those areas, obviously, like we're all works in progress.

But I think just being really aware and being okay and comfortable with those areas where
you're not so great will help you show up in ways that you want to.

It'll help you come up with strategies to bridge those gaps, whether it has to do with
learning or exposure or mentorship and those things.

And then so I think overall, just when it comes to leadership and soft skills and those
human skills, knowing yourself is the most important thing.

like really knowing yourself, not just like that ego driven like, these are all the
awesome things about me.

Like that's one side of it.

The other side of it is these are the things that I really stick my foot in my mouth about
and I need to figure out a way to move past or figure out a different way to show up in

certain circles.

And sort of doing that kind of work I think is really important because when you know
yourself then you can better support other people.

You can better sort of show up in those meetings or in those ways that you contribute.

And then I

that it's a little bit more of a clearer and faster paced conversation and way to
contribute because you're not fighting with yourself and you can kind of just keep going.

Yeah, definitely the internal struggle that all of us have felt at some point probably
continue to feel because self-awareness is a constant journey, right?

So I wholeheartedly agree that is an important skill, especially when we're faced with so
much change.

And, you know, we need to know how we adapt to that as well.

So in any capacity, in any relationship, self-awareness puts us on stronger footing.

Yes.

we can, we have the stability to be able to engage and choose to act rather than react.

Fantastic.

And thank you so, so much for joining me today.

And I mean, I know that our listeners would have, would have received a ton of insight and
tips and nuggets from you.

Where can they continue to learn from you?

But you can find me on LinkedIn is the easiest place.

I think that folks can feel free to reach out if they so choose, start a conversation and
we can talk about a lot of different topics.

Let me start that over.

I was like, are people gonna be reaching out even more so than normal?

Okay.

yeah.

Okay.

Well, I think people can find me on LinkedIn.

I think that's the easiest way to sort of learn a little bit about my perspectives on
different, whether it has to do with leadership or strategy or people or operations and

those sorts of different sides.

I share a lot through there and I think that would probably be the best way to reach out
to me and to kind of see what my perspective might be.

I hate trying that one more time.

All right, all good.

Okay.

So I think the best way that people can reach out to me is on LinkedIn.

So I have, I believe the slash is, you know, linkedin.com slash Alana Schmidt or something
like that.

And I share a lot of my perspectives.

I post a lot.

There's a lot of activity there.

So people want to get a good idea of sort of some of the things that I believe in, some of
the, you know, approaches that I take to leadership strategy operations, people

operations, those sorts of things.

They can find me there.

Beautiful.

Perfect.

Well, thank you again.

And as always, I'm looking forward to future conversations with you.

Thank you.